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Re: Untitled
Re: None Compound Material (Federico Sanchez)
Re: Feedback Re: Compound Material (Gumplinger Peter)
Re: None Re: Compound Material (Vladimir IVANTCHENKO )
Date: 08 Jun, 2007
From: Federico Sanchez <Federico Sanchez>

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Thank you all for the answers.
Finally, I implemented somehow the Peter strategy. In any case, I could use
my own measurements on light output at the end of the whole process
(scintillator+WLS) to fine tune the simulation parameters regardless the
precise emission spectrum used.
Thank you again, until the next doubt.
F.

On 6/8/07, Vladimir IVANTCHENKO <vnivanch@mail.cern.ch> wrote:
>
> *** Discussion title: Materials
> Email replies to PublicHyperNews@slac.stanford.edu must include:
>   In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.4.58.0706080959030.16890@pcepsft17.cern.ch>
>   Subject: ...change this to be about your reply.
>
> On Thu, 7 Jun 2007, Peter Gumplinger wrote:
>
> > *** Discussion title: Materials
> > Email replies to PublicHyperNews@slac.stanford.edu must include:
> >   In-Reply-To: <"/materials/124/3"@geant4-hn.slac.stanford.edu>
> >   Subject: ...change this to be about your reply.
> >
> > >> the new material does not inherit the properties of its components
> >
> > >> (ie. it not have a Material Property Table defined).
> >
> > It is not a trivial thing, in general, to combine the properties of
> > components to arrive at the property of the compound. For example, (I
> > believe) your emmision spectrum will be that of your PPO and POPOP in
> > the ratio 1/0.03 - the concentration of Polystyrene is irrelevant.
> > Chemistry is at work in some situation where again the combined property
> > can be very different to the sum and rations of components by weight or
> > atom.
> >
> > I am afraid you have to specify a MaterialPropertyTable for your
> > compound doing the combination of components by hand - outside the
> > program.
> >
>
> I would like to add, that even ionisation properties of material built out
> of other materials are not very precise: computing corrections to
> ionisation process we assume additive properties. For example, for a
> compound of materials ionisation potential is less precise than one for
> components, because for a known component it can be taken from the NIST
> database.  Optical properties are definetly not additive, so making linear
> combinations of optical properties will be wrong.
>
> VI
>
>


-- 
===========================
Dr. Federico Sanchez
Instituto de Ciencias Nucleares, UNAM
Circuito Exterior S/N, Ciudad Universitaria,
Mexico D.F. 04510, Mexico.
email : sanchez.f.a@gmail.com
            federico.sanchez@nucleares.unam.mx
Fax(Office): ++52-55-5622-4693
Ph.(Office): ++52-55-5622-4739 (ext.: 372)
Ph.(Home): ++52-55-55543367
===========================

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Thank you all for the answers.<br>Finally, I implemented somehow the Peter strategy. In any case, I could use my own measurements on light output at the end of the whole process (scintillator+WLS) to fine tune the simulation parameters regardless the precise emission spectrum used.
<br>Thank you again, until the next doubt.<br>F.<br><br><div><span class="gmail_quote">On 6/8/07, <b class="gmail_sendername">Vladimir IVANTCHENKO</b> &lt;<a href="mailto:vnivanch@mail.cern.ch">vnivanch@mail.cern.ch</a>&gt; wrote:
</span><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">*** Discussion title: Materials<br>Email replies to <a href="mailto:PublicHyperNews@slac.stanford.edu">
PublicHyperNews@slac.stanford.edu</a> must include:<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;In-Reply-To: &lt;<a href="mailto:Pine.LNX.4.58.0706080959030.16890@pcepsft17.cern.ch">Pine.LNX.4.58.0706080959030.16890@pcepsft17.cern.ch</a>&gt;<br>&nbsp;&nbsp;Subject: ...change this to be about your reply.
<br><br>On Thu, 7 Jun 2007, Peter Gumplinger wrote:<br><br>&gt; *** Discussion title: Materials<br>&gt; Email replies to <a href="mailto:PublicHyperNews@slac.stanford.edu">PublicHyperNews@slac.stanford.edu</a> must include:
<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; In-Reply-To: &lt;&quot;/materials/124/3&quot;@<a href="http://geant4-hn.slac.stanford.edu">geant4-hn.slac.stanford.edu</a>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp; Subject: ...change this to be about your reply.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; the new material does not inherit the properties of its components
<br>&gt;<br>&gt; &gt;&gt; (ie. it not have a Material Property Table defined).<br>&gt;<br>&gt; It is not a trivial thing, in general, to combine the properties of<br>&gt; components to arrive at the property of the compound. For example, (I
<br>&gt; believe) your emmision spectrum will be that of your PPO and POPOP in<br>&gt; the ratio 1/0.03 - the concentration of Polystyrene is irrelevant.<br>&gt; Chemistry is at work in some situation where again the combined property
<br>&gt; can be very different to the sum and rations of components by weight or<br>&gt; atom.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I am afraid you have to specify a MaterialPropertyTable for your<br>&gt; compound doing the combination of components by hand - outside the
<br>&gt; program.<br>&gt;<br><br>I would like to add, that even ionisation properties of material built out<br>of other materials are not very precise: computing corrections to<br>ionisation process we assume additive properties. For example, for a
<br>compound of materials ionisation potential is less precise than one for<br>components, because for a known component it can be taken from the NIST<br>database.&nbsp;&nbsp;Optical properties are definetly not additive, so making linear
<br>combinations of optical properties will be wrong.<br><br>VI<br><br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>===========================<br>Dr. Federico Sanchez<br>Instituto de Ciencias Nucleares, UNAM<br>Circuito Exterior S/N, Ciudad Universitaria,
<br>Mexico D.F. 04510, Mexico.<br>email : <a href="mailto:sanchez.f.a@gmail.com">sanchez.f.a@gmail.com</a><br>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href="mailto:federico.sanchez@nucleares.unam.mx">federico.sanchez@nucleares.unam.mx</a><br>Fax(Office): ++52-55-5622-4693
<br>Ph.(Office): ++52-55-5622-4739 (ext.: 372)<br>Ph.(Home): ++52-55-55543367 <br>===========================

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